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Post by worry on May 31, 2019 19:02:40 GMT
Magic and Armor
A brief note. It would appear that there are already problems with battlemages in full-plate, with ridiculous mana counts and a veritable armory of weapons. This wouldn't be (so much of) a problem if we at least had access to denatium, to prevent casting, but presently, despite searching for it, no smith appears able to do anything about it. As is, the best way to succeed in every event/combat scenario, is to have applied for a character with 20 mana, and a sizable amount of gold to begin with (or alternatively, just apply for plate), and buy plate armor (or failing that, just use the plate you applied for), followed by picking up the weapons of every dead individual you find. In short: Apply for advanced mage with gold, buy plate, pick up all the weapons you can find. This makes you the best viable way of making your character overpowered, as is the case with particular characters already - who have a solution to every viable scenario one could list off.
The solution to this, would quite obviously be the limitation of mana from certain types of armor, such as the following:
- Clothing (Basic Attire, Robes etc.): No Mana Penalty - Leather/Cloth Armor (Boiled Leather Armor, Gambeson, etc.): -4 Penalty to Total Mana - Light Metal Armor (Chainmail, Segmented Plate, Splint etc.): -8 Penalty to Total Mana - Heavy Metal Armor (Plate Metal, Half-Plate, Cuirasses etc.): - 12 to Total Mana
However, due to Holy and Faith magics pulling upon the faith of the individual, and often being mostly defensive, healing and protective magic - they are not affected in terms of mana penalties in the same way. However, all other magic schools are.
This would allow for battle-mages to still be a thing, and be present within the schema, without completely ruining them conceptually. It would, however, ensure that they are not the optimal way of building a character. Please post what you think below, and feel free to chip in. Also, vote on the poll. |
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crab
Peasant
Posts: 13
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Post by crab on May 31, 2019 19:03:55 GMT
make heavy armour -14 so they can't cast a high level spell
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Post by Kurnos on May 31, 2019 19:07:58 GMT
The problem isn't mages in plate armor, it's mages in plate armor carrying an entire arsenal on their back to make them invincible to anything and everything. Mages in plate without what I just mentioned are just wearing it so they have an extra layer of defense behind the magic they can already cast. Adding what you suggested would also immediately duck -12 to Mana for someone just wearing a full helmet or pair of greaves.
Edit: If the big problem about mages wearing higher level gear is still being able to properly cast, wouldn't it make more sense to put in other rules before this that're separate from mana? Turn limits with extreme movement before exhaustion comes to mind first.
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Post by worry on May 31, 2019 19:11:40 GMT
The problem isn't mages in plate armor, it's mages in plate armor carrying an entire arsenal on their back to make them invincible to anything and everything. Mages in plate without what I just mentioned are just wearing it so they have an extra layer of defense behind the magic they can already cast. Adding what you suggested would also immediately duck -12 to Mana for someone just wearing a full helmet or pair of greaves. Disagree entirely. You didn't listen in discord, and you won't listen here. If you're a mage, you have access to ways of protecting yourself that other individuals don't. All schools of magic can provide protecting or defensive spells, you just need to think harder about how your spells work. Having those in addition to a metal shell around your body, is too much without penalty. |
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Post by fantasammy on May 31, 2019 19:15:36 GMT
this would kinda make powder mages completely useless:(
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Post by Kurnos on May 31, 2019 19:19:11 GMT
I don't think all do. The ones I can see right off the bat from the magic page that couldn't defend against something like muskets or other projectiles would be Fire, Lightning, Light, Hellfire, Psionics, Metal, Alteration, Illusion- the list goes on. Even if these did (and they probably can, like you said) have defensive spells, they're definitely going to be extremely niche outside of what that magic is actually used for. I can't see Light magic doing a number on someone trying to pop the mage in the head, and the same goes for Illusion and Fire. What's the Illusionist going to do, go invisible in a whole suit of plate armor with the metal clanking after every step? Cloud your vision to try and get closer to cast more Illusion magic? The problems really come up when that Illusionist (using it as an example) clouds your vision and comes up to you with a mongo-sized Great sword and a DS3 Parrying Dagger.
Also, yes, I did listen in discord. Just trying to put what I'm getting from this here, don't have to take jabs at me bud :^)
Another easy fix would just be requiring a Foci to be held to ca- oh, wait...
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Post by jjordan on May 31, 2019 19:58:04 GMT
The biggest issue that seems to be the root of this is that people are utilizing magic without properly adhering to the already established rules regarding casting. So, to clarify this and make it clear to everyone going forward, here's how this is supposed to work: Casting magic requires a focus (foci) and mana (MP). Foci can only hold a certain amount of spells already inscribed into them, as a mage CANNOT cast from memory. The details regarding how many spells can go to what type of foci are listed here: koribos.boards.net/thread/38/magic-function-server under SPELL SLOTS. At the very end of that section, it details that for you to SWITCH FOCI, you MUST TAKE A TURN TO ATTUNE TO IT. On a similar note, for you to switch from a foci to a weapon, you must ALSO TAKE A TURN. Which means that once you are done casting, you spend an action to draw your weapon. You CANNOT draw and fire/stab/slash on the same turn. Finally, you CANNOT cast a spell and draw a weapon or switch foci ON THE SAME TURN. You must cast the spell (1 turn). Switch foci and attune / draw weapon (1 turn). Then you may cast or attack (1 turn). Additionally, if you have an OFFHAND FOCI, you CANNOT CAST A SPELL AND ATTACK WITH YOUR MAIN HAND WEAPON ON THE SAME TURN. If your weapon is one of your FOCI, which means it CAN ONLY HAVE ONE SPELL SLOT, you MUST take a turn to cast ONLY THE SPELL. The only exception is if the spell EXPLICITLY helps the function of the weapon, such as a spell used to pierce better, etc. For example, if a sword has a spell that causes it to shoot fire from it, you can only CAST THAT SPELL, you cannot cast the spell and swing, as the spell does not assist in the stabbing or slashing of the blade. Casting out of turn or attempting multiple attacks will be punished severely from now on, you little munchkins. Edit: If you try and cheese the system, expect to get your character removed. ESPECIALLY if you try that shit on other players. |
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Post by Kurnos on May 31, 2019 20:25:09 GMT
If people followed the rules there really shouldn't be that big of a fuss with people having so much gear. It shouldn't be viable in the first place, but if you've made a suggestion on trying to change it I guess you got dealt a bad hand when interacting with mages?
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Post by Admin on May 31, 2019 20:32:25 GMT
We'll leave this poll up for now just to see what people think - but with the new magic clarification post, we're going to see how that goes and if people follow it.
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Post by bard on May 31, 2019 21:15:16 GMT
I think that mana cost should go up with armor, rather than depleting a pool. You tire faster, but you don't have any less stamina than you did before you put the armor on. I think it would work differently depending on the school, but it creates a complication that would essentially make paladins totally useless which could defeat that argument in the interest of fairness in RP diversity.
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sean
Peasant
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Post by sean on May 31, 2019 21:36:55 GMT
repeat after me plate-armor-can-get-killed-by-a-cudgel ![]() behold, the ultimate knight-killer for a peasant without any money. then you have this   and this  oh and these  ![]() plate armor is literally only chainmail with some extra protection: you've got the ability to shrug off sharp slashing weapons, sure. but there's weapons that can kill you, and even cause you to die from things that you normally wouldnt. say you get hit in the chest on an exhale; your armor caves in and now you're unable to breathe. my point is that people who think platemail are the be-all-end-all of armor in a fantasy universe are retarded; it protects against broadhead arrows, swords, some axes, and knives; it doesnt protect against mauls, hammers, cudgels, maces, flails, warpicks, and bodkin arrows. and because of this i dont think its useful to give plate such a horrendus debuff for casters. |
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Post by noret on May 31, 2019 21:38:41 GMT
Outside of OOC balancing, why would wearing armour have any effect on a mage? If it's not gonna stop them from using / performing the magic properly, there should be no decrease OR increase in their mana pool because armour has no effect on these things. It's not a relic or a magical item that drains them of their mana. It's just steel. (most of the time) If it's a question of being overpowered -- it's magic. That's what magic is. repeat after me plate-armor-can-get-killed-by-a-cudgel ![]() behold, the ultimate knight-killer for a peasant without any money. then you have this and this oh and these ![]() plate armor is literally only chainmail with some extra protection: you've got the ability to shrug off sharp slashing weapons, sure. but there's weapons that can kill you, and even cause you to die from things that you normally wouldnt. say you get hit in the chest on an exhale; your armor caves in and now you're unable to breathe. my point is that people who think platemail are the be-all-end-all of armor in a fantasy universe are retarded; it protects against broadhead arrows, swords, some axes, and knives; it doesnt protect against mauls, hammers, cudgels, maces, flails, warpicks, and bodkin arrows. and because of this i dont think its useful to give plate such a horrendus debuff for casters. exactly this. ontop of it all, you'd need some kind of IC reason for it to make sense. good luck with that. |
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